[OpenXPKI-users] Ubuntu vs. Debian - how would you decide

[Oliver Welter]

Dear OpenXPKI Users,

the project is making good efforts to stabilize and we still fight for
our plan to get a first stable release this year. We are currently
facing a critical decission and kindly ask for your vote.

The latest development is done on Debian Squeeze but we consider
switching to Ubuntu 12.04 LTS because it has perl 5.14 (vs 5.10) which
solves several utf8 related problems and comes with version 2 (vs v1)
of the new OOP Layer "Moose", which we heavily use in the newer parts.

The only reason to stick with debian is, that some people say it is more
solid, but I dont know if that really holds...

How do you think about? Are there any other reasons pro debian?

We would of course do our best to maintain compatibility with other
operating systems and perl versions but it would (probably) help us to
shorten the time to get working release on the "preffered platform".

Oliver

[Scott Hardin]

Hi Oli,

The versions of Perl and CPAN packages delivered by the various distributions will always be a moving target for us, especially with the number of prerequisites we've grown to depend on. If we spend too much effort trying to keep everyone happy, we won't be able to concentrate on getting at least one of them happy.

I'd suggest letting our support for Debian "hibernate" and see how things look after their next refresh. Since the package build process is the same for Ubuntu and Debian, it will be trivial to refresh our support for Debian once their Perl and Moose are updated. If someone really needs to use Debian, they'll have to manage the update packages, which will be a site-dependent task anyway.

Scott

Post by Oliver Welter
Dear OpenXPKI Users,
the project is making good efforts to stabilize and we still fight for our plan to get a first stable release this year. We are currently facing a critical decission and kindly ask for your vote.
The latest development is done on Debian Squeeze but we consider switching to Ubuntu 12.04 LTS because it has perl 5.14 (vs 5.10) which solves several utf8 related problems and comes with version 2 (vs v1) of the new OOP Layer "Moose", which we heavily use in the newer parts.
The only reason to stick with debian is, that some people say it is more solid, but I dont know if that really holds...
How do you think about? Are there any other reasons pro debian?
We would of course do our best to maintain compatibility with other operating systems and perl versions but it would (probably) help us to shorten the time to get working release on the "preffered platform".
Oliver
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[Joachim Astel]

Post by Scott Hardin
The versions of Perl and CPAN packages delivered by the various distributions will always be a moving target for us, especially with the number of prerequisites we've grown to depend on. If we spend too much effort trying to keep everyone happy, we won't be able to concentrate on getting at least one of them happy.
I'd suggest letting our support for Debian "hibernate" and see how things

look after their next refresh. Since the package build process is the same for
Ubuntu and Debian, it will be trivial to refresh our support for Debian once
their Perl and Moose are updated. If someone really needs to use Debian,
they'll have to manage the update packages, which will be a site-dependent task
anyway.

Ubuntu would be my favourite.

Greetings
-Achim

[Michael Bell]

Hi Oli,

I think the comments regarding Debian are a little bit misleading. There
are two different things - development and packaging platforms.

If we talk about development then unstable (sid) and testing (wheezy)
are the relevant distributions. If you really want to use stable for
development then you can install newer version via apt preferences. So
if you think about a more up-to-date package base then you can use
Ubuntu in general, Debian unstable or testing.

If we want to create packages then the correct Debian build platforms
can be stable, testing or unstable. This depends on your requirements.
Today I think Debian testing would be the best for OpenXPKI. It supports
Perl 5.14 and libmoose-perl.

BTW the Linux notebooks in my data center unit use Debian unstable ;)

Debian and Ubuntu are both used in large installations. It is more a
question of support than of robustness which distribution you prefer.

I see actually no need for a decision. If you build the packaging stuff
on Ubuntu LTS then it should be no problem to migrate it to Debian. I
personally think that it is much more important that MANIFEST and
Makefile.PL are up-to-date. Even "make test" has a higher priority in my
eyes.

Best regards

Michael
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[Oliver Welter]

Hi Micha,

Post by Michael Bell
I think the comments regarding Debian are a little bit misleading. There
are two different things - development and packaging platforms.

ok you are right, so the rephrased question should be: What should be
the recommended distribution for deploying an OpenXPKI installation from
prebuild packages.

If you build the system from the sources, I agree that it is not really
a matter what distro we choose, but I guess most people who are new to
OpenXPKI would not try to build it, if there is a package. Besides a
well defined environment is mandatory to provide support to the people.

Post by Michael Bell
BTW the Linux notebooks in my data center unit use Debian unstable ;)

A notebook is not a mission critical server and I dont now much people
running unstable on servers.

Post by Michael Bell
I see actually no need for a decision. If you build the packaging stuff
on Ubuntu LTS then it should be no problem to migrate it to Debian. I
personally think that it is much more important that MANIFEST and
Makefile.PL are up-to-date. Even "make test" has a higher priority in my
eyes.

Agreed, but irrelevant on the rephrased question ;)

Oliver

[Michael Bell]

Hi Oliver,

Post by Oliver Welter
ok you are right, so the rephrased question should be: What should be
the recommended distribution for deploying an OpenXPKI installation from
prebuild packages.

I think this question only matters for a live CD or live ISO image. So
if you prefer a platform and you are willing to create a live ISO then
it is your decision which only depends on your preferences because you
do the work and you pay the receipt.

If we think about production environments then it is not our decision.
Every infrastructure provider has its own rules. If a company has a
service contract with SuSE or Canonical then they will use their
platform. Potentially they test OpenXPKI on a recommended platform with
pre-build packages but finally they use their own platform. Anything
else would be very surprising in terms of cost and risk management.

So if you prefer Ubuntu LTS then use it. I just hope, you will provide
us with the package sources because I use Debian :)

I personally don't think that someone has the right to judge about a
preferred system if another one does the work. So it is your choice.

Best regards

Michael
--
___________________________________________________________________

Michael Bell Humboldt-Universitaet zu Berlin

Tel.: [phone] ZE Computer- und Medienservice
Fax: [phone] Unter den Linden 6
***@cms.hu-berlin.de D-10099 Berlin
___________________________________________________________________

PGP Fingerprint: 09E4 3D29 4156 2774 0F2C C643 D8BD 1918 2030 5AAB

[Christian]

Post by Scott Hardin
Hi Oli,
I think the comments regarding Debian are a little bit misleading. There
are two different things - development and packaging platforms.
If we talk about development then unstable (sid) and testing (wheezy)
are the relevant distributions. If you really want to use stable for
development then you can install newer version via apt preferences. So
if you think about a more up-to-date package base then you can use
Ubuntu in general, Debian unstable or testing.
If we want to create packages then the correct Debian build platforms
can be stable, testing or unstable. This depends on your requirements.
Today I think Debian testing would be the best for OpenXPKI. It supports
Perl 5.14 and libmoose-perl.
BTW the Linux notebooks in my data center unit use Debian unstable ;)
Debian and Ubuntu are both used in large installations. It is more a
question of support than of robustness which distribution you prefer.
I see actually no need for a decision. If you build the packaging stuff
on Ubuntu LTS then it should be no problem to migrate it to Debian. I
personally think that it is much more important that MANIFEST and
Makefile.PL are up-to-date. Even "make test" has a higher priority in my
eyes.

ACK.
This way I am able to build packages for SuSE (on obs) (Fedora, RHEL,
CentOS, Debian, Ubuntu)
long time ago I started to get packages built on SuSE here:
https://build.opensuse.org/project/show?project=home%3Acomputersalat%3AOpenXPKI

If someone is interested to take part, just mail me.
And if you want an own project in obs, that's no problem, we can order one.

Cheers
Chris

Post by Scott Hardin
Best regards
Michael
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[Oliver Welter]

Hi

it sounds like most of our users are building their stuff from source.

@Chris - are you able and willing to help us in updating the rpm build
code?

Oliver

[Christian]

Post by Oliver Welter
Hi
it sounds like most of our users are building their stuff from source.

what a pity, while nearly most of them are using a dist which uses
rpm/deb or anything else.

Post by Oliver Welter
@Chris - are you able and willing to help us in updating the rpm build
code?

Yes, but I can only speak for RPM. I don't know how to make "deb" packages.
Perhaps we can share our knowledge :)

Post by Oliver Welter
Oliver

Cheers
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[Martin Bartosch]

Hi,

Post by Christian

Post by Oliver Welter
@Chris - are you able and willing to help us in updating the rpm build
code?

Yes, but I can only speak for RPM. I don't know how to make "deb" packages.
Perhaps we can share our knowledge :)

we are relying heavily on RPM packages (SuSE SLES 10 currently), and hence I am currently the one who committed most of the RPM packaging stuff. Any help with that is of course greatly appreciated.
I am quite pleased with the RPM package build as it is today, but of course there are details that could be done in a better way.

Regards,

Martin

[Christian]

Hi

Post by Martin Bartosch
we are relying heavily on RPM packages (SuSE SLES 10 currently), and hence I am currently the one who committed most of

SLES 10, not yet obsolete, but still having "grey hairs" ;)

Post by Martin Bartosch
the RPM packaging stuff. Any help with that is of course greatly appreciated.

:)

Post by Martin Bartosch
I am quite pleased with the RPM package build as it is today, but of course there are details that could be done in a better way.

I'm working with "SLES" for years (since SLES 7) now. So I can say it is
my favourite "Server" Linux. :)
And I am a packager for SuSE for years now. So perhaps I can help a bit
especially creating perl RPM packages.

Post by Martin Bartosch
Regards,
Martin

Cheers
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Christian
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